Ahmad Massoud's Views - Part 2 - his Interview with Afghanistan International

February 26, 2025

Ahmad Massoud's Views - Part 2 - his Interview with Afghanistan International

Ahmad Massoud is the leader of the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan and one of the leading figures opposing the Taliban. After the fall of Kabul, he took over the leadership of the National Resistance Front, the main anti-Taliban resistance group, and is working to create a united political front. In this interview with journalist Nasir Nadeem of Afghanistan International on 21 February 2025, Ahmad Massoud talks about political developments, the Vienna meeting, the effects of the world situation on Afghanistan, negotiations with the Taliban and the future of Afghanistan.

Ahmad Massoud in his interview with Afghanistan International - 21 February 2025

Contents

1) Translation of the interview (word by word)

2) Full analysis of the interview

1) Translation of the interview (word by word)

(Vienna Conference and Democratic Aspirations)

Afghanistan International (AI): Mr. Massoud, thank you for giving us your time. You are one of the founders of the Vienna Conference. The Vienna Conference has entered its fifth round. What has the Vienna Conference achieved in these five rounds?

Ahmad Massoud: Thank you. First of all, it is an honor to be a member of the Vienna Process, which has the goal to restore democracy in Afghanistan, achieve a lasting peace in Afghanistan, and achieve social justice in Afghanistan through a channel in which the people see themselves. That we participated in it and made an effort in this direction has been our duty. But the owners of the Vienna Process are the people of Afghanistan.

(Engagement with the Taliban)

AI: You entered into negotiations with many people for the Vienna Conference. You invited them to come to the Vienna Conference, including Dr. Yasin Zia. Did you also negotiate with the Taliban to come to this conference, or didn’t you?

Ahmad Massoud: First, you must see that all the capacities of the Afghan people are in an understanding of how and with what approach and program they can create an Afghanistan free from oppression and a democratic Afghanistan, an Afghanistan where they can live together in stability and security. And you can see without a doubt that the path we are taking is the path of our father, and he and his words, from the very beginning, even his struggle and resistance, was that Afghanistan should be a country where its people live in security with themselves and with the world, and the people have the right to determine their own destiny. If the Taliban accepts elections as a principle, if they accept peace as a principle, and justice as a principle, and dialogue, we are ready to dialogue and talk under conditions where justice is respected. And we said this from day one, and this is what my father said. But with the direction the Taliban is going today… And don't forget, I think it was with your respected media or Tolo media, when we were in Kabul, my words were clear that I am ready to forgive even my father's blood, and today my words are the same. But I am not ready to sell the people's aspirations and somehow forget the people's aspirations. They are nothing we can just ignore. The aspirations of the people, the rights of the people, belong to the people themselves. Our effort is to let them determine their own destiny. Until the Taliban doesn’t understand that we are not the ones who can dictate to the people how to live, how to think, how to aspire, how to be, the ways and doors of negotiation and conversation are closed. If they also believe in this principle, there is no doubt that the Vienna process is like the home of all the people of Afghanistan, it can be their home. But in that case, I think they cannot be called Taliban anymore (laughs).

(Critique of the Taliban’s Governance)

AI: Mr. Mujahid, the spokesman for the ruling group, the spokesman for the Taliban group, said that those who participated in the meeting can come to Afghanistan and this meeting can continue here. These are the children of Afghanistan. On the other hand, Mr. Mohaqiq, I think, said that the doors of the Vienna meeting are open to the Taliban. What is your opinion on Mr. Mujahid's words?

Ahmad Massoud: Look, today unfortunately, the situation that the Taliban achieved as a result was about 8 to 10 million Afghan citizens have emigrated (from Afghanistan). If the conditions in Afghanistan are good, then what is this emigration? Then what is the (loud) voice and cry of the women and girls of our country? If Afghanistan is a very safe land, then what are the clashes, murders, massacres, crimes and oppression? Look, no one is interested in getting armed and fighting. They (Afghans) are forced to do this out of necessity. And today, unfortunately, you heard the voices of the girls of this land at this very Vienna conference. You heard the voices of our people. The words of the people and the oppression that the Taliban is carrying out today show that the conditions are exactly the opposite of what Mr. Mujahid says. He says, "You are our brothers, come (back to Afghanistan)." It is interesting that he does not say "sisters," he says, "You are brothers, come." (Massoud laughs) While this land probably belongs more to the sisters and women of this country than to the men, because they are the ones who suffer the most. That is why we call it the motherland. It has a motherly status for all of us. So, it’s just words of them (instead of deeds), unfortunately. And if they really, the way they should and may have took action, (and if) real peace would came, (and if) the government had been in the hands of the people and chosen by the people, that would have been the time when no one needed any process, the people themselves would have returned (to Afghanistan). But it is due to the Taliban's coercion and oppression that the people have been put in a state of turmoil and everyone in every corner is striving in any way. And we are grateful to God that today the efforts of the Afghan people, whether women or men or different fronts, are being unified. And you can be sure that when the energy of a nation is united, as the national hero (Ahmad Shah Massoud) said, no one and no force in the world can stand against it.

(International Relations and Assistance)

AI: The way of world politics has changed with the coming of Trump and it can even be said that it has become shaky. The aid that was given to the Taliban can still be seen. What is your opinion on the issue of America, Trump and the Taliban?

Ahmad Massoud: Look, it has stopped for now. The packages and gifts (of USA to Taliban) have stopped for now and the possibility that it will not continue is very high. When they are not ready to help Ukraine, then you should think about whether the aid will continue to be given to Afghanistan. The probability is very low, based on the minimum knowledge that the world knows about Mr. Trump and his way of thinking and acting. But one thing that is not based on the issues of the West and East and Mr. Trump, but which I rather gained through my personal experience over the past 37 years of my life, shows that a nation that if its hope was in the outside world, would be humiliated. But a nation that stands on its own feet, the outside will also change itself in support of it. The most important message to the people, the most important analysis of the issue is this. Now, what America does, what Russia does, what the East does, what the West does, has an impact on Afghanistan, without a doubt. But if the people of Afghanistan themselves do not change, or have not changed, or are not united and coherent, no matter how much the outside world changes, there’s nothing inside to want to work with. So, the most important issue and the most important story is commitment, unity, cohesion and will of the Afghan people to change their own conditions. Whoever is in the White House, in the Kremlin or in Beijing: be aware, that it doesn’t matter, as long as the nation is united and decides for itself. When the nation has made its own decision, all of them will run and will stand behind it. So, what is more important than our analysis of what is happening abroad, is what we are doing. The Vienna step was a blessed and auspicious step that day by day we are moving closer to unity and cohesion, and God willing, with the hope of God, energy and unity, it will bring about change.

AI: Mr. Massoud, one of the most important issues in the world today is the issue of lobbying. You see that the Taliban are taking over Afghan embassies in every country every day through lobbying. What have you done in this field?

Ahmad Massoud: Look, if the Taliban, as a result of using all kinds of terrorist movements and heinous acts that they have committed throughout their history, and if, as a result of geopolitical and intelligence games, have one or two ambassadors, one or two offices, and one or two voices, like Qatar, today the people of Afghanistan have thousands of ambassadors, thousands of voices, thousands of representatives. Every Afghan, every compatriot, every sister, every brother in every corner of the world raises his voice for the sake of an Afghanistan and for a country that has a dignified life and a legitimate and acceptable government. That is an address, that is an ambassador, that is a representative. For his sake, I will not limit myself to a four-walled place in a country, in one direction, to say that if it were there, we would win, if it were not there, we would not win. Because of that, I have great faith and belief in every citizen of our country. If we, every citizen, truly fulfill our responsibility in every country, no one or two lobbies, no one or two embassies, no one or two representations can do anything against the will of the people. The most important story is that the unhealthy competition between the West and the East, of the region and the world has caused insecurity and misery in Afghanistan. Our message from day one has been this: we must understand the importance of the countries in the region and neighboring countries, respect their interests, cooperate with them, and play a fundamental role in a strategic and important way. At the same time (we must understand) the fundamental, serious, and important role of powerful countries such as the United States and European countries. (And that) Afghanistan can be, like in 2001, a center for joint cooperation, a place and a point for joint cooperation between the world and the region for an Afghanistan free from terrorism, danger, refugees, and a thousand other misfortunes that we face today. Our Afghanistan, in our interest and our vision, should be a demand for comprehensive cooperation between the region and the world to support and help the people of Afghanistan and establish a system that allows us to live with ourselves and with the world. In this regard, from Moscow to Vienna, from Tehran to Paris, nowhere is it acceptable for us not to make efforts for our country.

AI: You met with Muttaqi once in Mashhad, once with the Taliban in Russia, did you meet with the Taliban again after that, probably in other countries?

Ahmad Massoud: I only met with Mr. Muttaqi once in Tehran. It was based on a principle that we never stopped sitting at the negotiating table to solve the Afghan problem. Because the logic we have is that our logic is the people's words and the logic of the Afghan people. We only sat down once.

AI: Does it mean that you didn’t meet him in Moscow?

Ahmad Massoud: No (I didn’t meet him there). I think after a while they realized the logic of their opponent and his legitimacy. Because it is interesting that in the same meeting, I tell you a story (from that meeting), one of their members claimed the same thing, (he said): “Mr. Ahmad Massoud, in this situation, God is with you, the people are with you. If you make a mistake or commit a sin, it will be on your shoulders.”

AI: The Taliban said that?

Ahmad Massoud: That’s what one of their members said. I said, Mr. Minister, thank you that you have proven with whom God and the people are (both laugh). Now the story is that the Taliban really had an exceptional opportunity in these three or four years to show that they are different from what they said. We knew from the first day that what they had promised the world was not how they were. But the people of Afghanistan and the world experienced it and saw that, unfortunately, they did not learn. If they had learned, the conditions of the country would not be like this today. You see how many other countries create hope for their people by sending messages and plans. They draw a future in which men and women, young and old, from different classes and ethnic groups, and different religions see themselves. But what is the image that the Taliban present about the future of Afghanistan, except of darkness? I don't see anything else.

In terms of that, which exists, we have a definition of peace with dignity, and we consider peace to be the result of the meaningful and correct participation of the people in determining their own destiny. Otherwise, we consider any kind of negotiation and peace meaningless. And this is why the Taliban have been withdrawing from this issue to this day. If they reach this point that “no, the Afghan people should be seen to have a role and determine their own destiny in their own hands”, then we will be always ready for the negotiating table and talk, like my father (late Ahmad Shah Massoud), who never withdrew from this way (negotiation).

(Internal Dynamics and Future Prospects)

AI: These days strange tensions have arisen within the Taliban. How did the Resistance Front, of which you are the leader, and the Freedom Front, of which Mr. Dr. Zia is the leader and who was present in the Vienna Conference, benefit from these tensions between the Taliban?

Ahmad Massoud: Look, the issue is that any kind of tyranny eventually faces problems even from within. You witnessed the tyranny of the communist regime at that time (end of 1970s in Afghanistan) when the result of their tyranny was their internal failure. Tyrannies all over the world: you see that in every country that has gone towards tyranny in some way their internal differences have increased. And today, with this tyranny that has been created, you see that the voice of why only Kandahar, why only this, why only that, is raised even from among themselves (Taliban leaders). And even day and night, when I talked with my friends about how in Kandahar, for example, there is a talk about Zwanay (Pashtun term) or chivalry. These are all real values of Kandahar. The people of Kandahar are people with dignity and history. But from this point Kandahar has become a political mess because of all the wrong things and, in a way, the wrong and authoritarian approach. These were considered to be predictable issues. It was and is even possible to deepen because no matter how much tyranny is strengthened and different and opposing views become deeper. But concerning the issue of what opportunities and what use can be made in these circumstances, one by one, our hope has never been and is not in this direction. Our hope is always that all the capacities of the Afghan people, even the Taliban, reach this point that, for God's sake, these people, this country, need to have a life of value and dignity, and in a system and as a result of a process that the people determine their destiny, to have a government with dignity so that the children of the Taliban can live with dignity, and the children of the country can live with dignity. How long should this false process continue in one way and this tyranny and misery should inflict the people of Afghanistan. Considering the way in which this tyranny is progressing, without a doubt, tyranny has its own nature that it will eventually collapse on its own. And you will witness it. And that is why, day by day, the spirit of our people is becoming more united, more uniform and God willing, with God’s help, freedom and victory for our people is definite.

AI: Thank you for your time.

Ahmad Massoud: Thank you, sir.

2) Full analysis of the interview

The interview with Ahmad Massoud, leader of the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan, provides insights into the current political landscape in Afghanistan, particularly in relation to the Taliban’s rule. This analysis will delve into various aspects of the interview, including Massoud's views on the Vienna Conference, the state of negotiations with the Taliban, the role of the international community, and his perspective on the socio-political dynamics within Afghanistan.

1. Vienna Conference and Democratic Aspirations

Massoud positions the Vienna Conference as a platform aimed at restoring democracy, achieving peace, and promoting social justice in Afghanistan. He emphasizes the need for Afghan people to have ownership over their political and social issues, suggesting that their aspirations should not be overlooked. His assertion that the "owners of the Vienna Process are the people of Afghanistan" highlights his commitment to grassroots involvement in the political discourse, contrasting sharply with the Taliban's approach.

2. Engagement with the Taliban

Massoud acknowledges the invitation extended to various political figures, including the Taliban, to participate in the Vienna Conference. While he expresses readiness to negotiate with the Taliban, he sets specific preconditions: the Taliban must accept principles such as elections, peace, justice, and dialogue. His emphasis on these principles reflects a desire for a more inclusive and participatory governance model in Afghanistan.

He also makes a poignant remark about being willing to "forgive even my father’s blood" but insists on not sacrificing the people's aspirations. This powerful statement illustrates his dedication to the Afghan populace against the backdrop of personal and historical sacrifices, anchoring his resistance in a narrative of justice and self-determination. Despite his concessions, he doesn't conceal his contempt for the ideology of the Taliban by saying: "But in that case, I think they cannot be called Taliban anymore (laughs)."

3. Critique of the Taliban’s Governance

Massoud critiques the Taliban's current regime, citing the mass emigration of Afghan citizens and the oppression faced by women and girls. He argues that the conditions in Afghanistan contradict Taliban claims of security and stability, suggesting a disconnect between the narrative promoted by the Taliban and the lived experiences of Afghan citizens. This contrast serves to undermine the legitimacy of the Taliban's governance and highlights the need for a government that represents the voices of all Afghan people.

His humorous jab regarding the Taliban's omission of women from their calls for unity suggests a broader concern about how the Taliban's policies disproportionately affect women, reinforcing the idea that any future governance must prioritize gender equality.

4. International Relations and Assistance

Massoud's reflections on the implications of current international responses—especially regarding American support—emphasize his belief in self-reliance among the Afghan people. He notes that as long as Afghanistan leans on external powers, it remains vulnerable to humiliation and oppression. He advocates for an internally-driven movement for change, arguing that unity among Afghans, rather than dependency on external assistance, will ultimately lead to positive transformations.

His critique of the geopolitical dynamics reflects an awareness of how external influences can shape Afghanistan's fate but also posits that meaningful change must stem from the Afghan people’s will.

5. Internal Dynamics and Future Prospects

Massoud observes that tyranny often invites dissent from within, drawing parallels between the current situation with the Taliban and past authoritarian regimes in Afghanistan and the world. This observation not only reflects an understanding of historical cycles but also conveys a sense of hope that internal conflict within the Taliban could lead to opportunities for resistance and reform. He advocates for a unified Afghan front focused on dignified living conditions, signaling a strategic vision grounded in democratic principles and respect for human rights.

6. Conclusion and Overall Tone

Overall, Massoud's responses exhibit a blend of resilience, determination, and hope. He positions himself as a voice for the Afghan people while recognizing the challenges posed by both the Taliban and geopolitical forces. His discourse promotes unity, dignity, and grassroots involvement as the cornerstones of a movement advocating for an equitable and just Afghanistan. The conversational tone suggests a leader deeply invested in the future of his country, yet wary of the complexities posed by entrenched interests—both domestic and international.

Massoud personifies a new generation of Afghan leadership that seeks to synthesize historical struggles with contemporary aspirations, underscoring the pivotal role of the Afghan populace in shaping their national destiny.

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